11 replies to this topic

[Sebastian-Smythe]

Tesco Town....so Tesco have got their way!

Already we are seeing traders closing in Ilkley. Two have gone already, two more not far behind. I note a To Let sign appeared on The Moors Centre within days of the Tesco report coming out. Something similar happened when Ilkley College closed. Many small shops disappeared with a few months. The type students frequented. Not long after we lost the laundrette. It wasn't just students who used it but we were the ones who suffered.

I foresee a drop in house prices and a rise in house sales when the shed is fully operative. Stick that in your diaries and see how long it takes to prove me wrong. How long before wee see tumble weed blowing down The Grove? Someone has a 'fist full of dollars' and not the folks in Ilkley.

[catbazza]

Sebastian-Smythe, on 07 September 2010 - 12:54 PM, said:

Tesco Town....so Tesco have got their way!

Already we are seeing traders closing in Ilkley. Two have gone already, two more not far behind. I note a To Let sign appeared on The Moors Centre within days of the Tesco report coming out. Something similar happened when Ilkley College closed. Many small shops disappeared with a few months. The type students frequented. Not long after we lost the laundrette. It wasn't just students who used it but we were the ones who suffered.

I foresee a drop in house prices and a rise in house sales when the shed is fully operative. Stick that in your diaries and see how long it takes to prove me wrong. How long before wee see tumble weed blowing down The Grove? Someone has a 'fist full of dollars' and not the folks in Ilkley.

WOW! was that a ball of Tumble Weed that just past me or a cyclist smoking it .

[Wharfedale]

I wont talk about Tescos directly but like so much in modern life, the market drives development and at the moment the market demands value for money........... but there is a problem here because the majority of people mistake value for low prices and that is not always the case.

Its true that for many branded goods which we want to buy, such as a jar of Nescafe, the only differentiator is convenience of store location, and price, along with ability to buy other branded goods at the same time and for a lower price. The comparison between super markets is simple when price for the SAME quality goods are the only differentiator.

However, this is only half the story, and for me, I actually feel that many local shops and supermarkets such as Booths and Waitrose actually offer BETTER value for money that some other, larger supermarket chains. This is because price is no longer the only differentiator, and quality then comes into the equation, which whilst subjective, is equally important when it comes to fresh produce. I genuinely believe that value, measured in price per unit of quality can be higher at some of the ‘posher’ stores that some of the larger chains.

As an example, take a ‘vine ripened tomato’, goto some local super markets and take a close look at the way they package them. They are in a plastic tray with a thin plastic sleeve around them which is half covered in print telling us that its part of their ‘posh, high end range’, and the tomatoes that you can see through the clear part of the plastic are bright red and look perfectly ripe. However, remove the sleeve and you may find that the tomatoes at the other end of the pack are rather less ripe and not actually part of the same vine. The pack may have cost £1.59 at that store, and possibly the same amount would cost £2.29 (throw away prices off the top of my head) from Waitrose or a local store, but the quality is possibly twice a good, and therefore the value from the £2.29 store is far higher. A blind tasting of a tomato from each store would demonstrate that spending a little more was worth it. We actually seem to have forgotten what real tomatoes actually taste of. The supermarkets also play games with us in order to hide cheap, tasteless produce – what the heck is a ‘salad tomato’? An anaemic, tasteless, pink bag of water, sold in a pack of 4 for 40p.

Bags of pre-prepared salad that have been all but frozen and defrosted resulting in the leaves bruising and turning to mush or simply drying out. Fresh sea food that has been frozen and defrosted and frozen and defrosted and, well you get the idea.

There is a reason that a product costs what it costs and its a popular misconception that local shops (on the whole) or stores like Booths and Waitrose are poor value and just for posh folk. Sure, large chains have strong buying power, and to be honest I wouldn’t buy many branded goods from the likes of Booths, but when it comes to the fresh stuff then Boths and Waitrose are at the top of my list... Oh, and M and S.

I went into Booths a couple of days ago and it was already pretty quiet which was a shame as an expanded Tescos will no doubt do it damage, but the masses will flock for ‘bargins’

Oh, and dont even get me started on self scan tills.... ‘unexpected item in bagging area!!!! How can my shopping be unexpected!!!! What is the till expecting me to put in there if not shopping?!!!????!!!!

[weirdmusic]

Wharfedale, on 08 September 2010 - 08:48 AM, said:

..................................... The comparison between super markets is simple when price for the SAME quality goods are the only differentiator.
.............................................

I think your rather missing the point about the impact of a mega T on Ilkley & the surrounding areas.
We're not comparing one similar sized store within another.
 
This is Moby Dick up against a bunch of tiddlers!!

The mega T is going to be 2.5 times the size of their current store.  What are they going to fill it with?  More food - unlikely, more booze - possibly.

What do you find in other stores of a similar size?
Clothing, shoes, a pharmacy, an opticians, electricals - TVs, cameras, computers; toys, flat-packed furniture, DIY stuff, hardware items etc.  
You name it, they'll sell it.

Look at what shops there are in Ilkley at the moment.   How many of them could survive if their bread & butter items were taken away by the mega T?

How long do you think Mortens would last? Or Peter Dyers? Or Boots?

In addition the actual site of the new store is right on the edge of the town centre - how many of the users of the mega T would bother going into the town centre if they can get all they need from the mega T?

[Wharfedale]

weirdmusic, on 08 September 2010 - 01:23 PM, said:

I think your rather missing the point about the impact of a mega T on Ilkley & the surrounding areas.
We're not comparing one similar sized store within another.
 
This is Moby Dick up against a bunch of tiddlers!!

The mega T is going to be 2.5 times the size of their current store.  What are they going to fill it with?  More food - unlikely, more booze - possibly.

What do you find in other stores of a similar size?
Clothing, shoes, a pharmacy, an opticians, electricals - TVs, cameras, computers; toys, flat-packed furniture, DIY stuff, hardware items etc.  
You name it, they'll sell it.

Look at what shops there are in Ilkley at the moment.   How many of them could survive if their bread & butter items were taken away by the mega T?

How long do you think Mortens would last? Or Peter Dyers? Or Boots?

In addition the actual site of the new store is right on the edge of the town centre - how many of the users of the mega T would bother going into the town centre if they can get all they need from the mega T?

With respect, I think you have missed my point. I agree with you!! Read it again

Large supermarkets do not always deliver quality... Simply having cheap, low quality products is how they persuade shoppers that they are getting a bargain.

[weirdmusic]

Wharfedale, on 08 September 2010 - 01:26 PM, said:

With respect, I think you have missed my point. I agree with you!! Read it again

Large supermarkets do not always deliver quality... Simply having cheap, low quality products is how they persuade shoppers that they are getting a bargain.

I have read it again - your making the mistake of assuming that what the mega T will have on offer is low quality product - whether that is fresh produce or flat-packed furniture or pots & pans.  
People like to think that because they're paying more for something it somehow equates to better quality.  Designer labels & organic producers have majored on that assumption for years.

[Wharfedale]

When it comes to fresh produce the large generic retailers don’t usually try to compete on quality because its a numbers game and most people have forgotten how to actually taste or what proper fresh food tastes like. If 90%+ of people shop with their wallets then that’s what large retailers will sell too (so in that regard its our own fault).

Its not that the produce is low quality, its just that it has to fulfil the function of a product at a price that is less then the competitor, but if you dig under the surface of many of the products they are not the same quality and therefore any comparison is flawed. I went to ikea to buy an office chair for £100 a while ago but it was out of stock so I ended up buying one from Morrisions for £25 – a bargin I thought. That chair is now at the tip.

My point is that if people woke up to this then they would realise that they can pay a lower price per unit of quality at places like Waitrose than they can at some larger chains.

Your point on organic produce is not entirely accurate. People buy organic because of the manufacturing process, not just quality, and its the additional overhead in manufacturing that adds the extra cost. Of course organic production may well also lead to a improved quality, but in the same way as ‘fair trade’, its more to do with the production rather than the product itself.

A large super store in Ilkley will certainly cause local retailers a huge problem, and its a decision or those retailers and each and every shopper as to what is done to keep those smaller shops in business before they are forced to close and reopen as charity shops or another coffee outlet – I’m amazed that anyone in Ilkley actually sleeps at night with the amount of caffeine on sale in that town!

Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree about agreeing about this.

[appropriatebridge]

Regardless of whether the new Tesco will provide value for money/choice, cause shop closure or whatever, the people I feel for are the local residents. The existing Tesco creates enough traffic, think what one double the size or more will create. Not just the cars but even more lorries.

According to the Ilkley Gazette:
[indent]
"Government planning inspector Harold Stephens has delivered his verdict on the long-running saga and backed Tesco after the public eight-day appeal in July, despite strong opposition from Bradford Council and residents’ group Ilkley Residents Against Tesco Expansion (Irate)." [/indent]

So despite the local verdict being to reject, Mr Stephens commands accept. Is he mad? I bet Mr Stephens does not live on Little Lane, Mayfield Road etc. He probably lives in a stockbroker belt somewhere well removed from danger of development.. One only has to look at the Google satellite picture to see the site is surrounded my housing. I wonder what skullduggery has gone on behind the scenes? What happened to planning issues being determined more by local people (according to Dave and Nick - or should that be Nave and Dick?).

Tesco’s lawyer said ‘the boxes for general economic development are ticked’ by the plans. That's probably the problem. A tick box system being used instead of eyes, thoughts, feelings and common sense. Tesco have too much power and influence and at their rate of expansion, Britain will soon be the Kingdom of Tesco and like in the industrial revolution we will be living in Tesco houses and being paid in Tesco money which we can only spend - guess where.

If this ever gets built, a boycott could maybe be organised? IBOT - Ilkley Boycott of Tesco? Better quality stuff is available in Booths and Waitrose or local shops anyway and although I accept a jar of Nescafe is a jar of Nescafe the overall basket would probably cost a bit more. The question is whether enough people feel strongly enough to pay that premium.

[Sebastian-Smythe]

I'll keep this as short as possible.

Quality in most cases counts. Quality has to be paid for whoever is doing the paying. There are those who profess to be quality but are not, whereas there are those who sell food which doesn't rot overnight and don't advertise themselves as being quality traders. Personally I prefer to buy where there is the least packaging, where products are fresh, and hype is kept in the bin.

[blunt pencil]

Guys - I have read all the posts on this topic - they are all in agreement - A NEW TESCO IS BAD.

I am really confused. I read the Gazette article:

http://www.ilkleygaz...w_Ilkley_store/

to me, it looks like despite the refusal by Bradford to grant planning permission, the lack of local support, the objection from local MP's, residents, etc. - Sonehow some quango has let them build it.

Suely this is the one truely LOCAL issue that everyone is in support against.

Does anyone have a link to the feasibility study. Can we get a copy of it through Freedom of Information. I believe that whoever has granted planning permission, has done so for non-local benefit.

Can the local community not formally object and actually stop this

[blunt pencil]

I found the appeal reference and website. All very stitched up if you ask me:

http://www.pcs.plann.../CaseSearch.asp

APP/W4705/A/10/2121619


There is an email contact for this particular appeal.

sian.evans@pins.gsi.gov.uk

[Sebastian-Smythe]

Ping pong!

Just what the likes of Tesco like - in fighting.

To me it is Quality first, first, first.
Service and the rest find their own level.