104 replies to this topic

[appropriatebridge]

View PostFlas# #arry, on 05 December 2010 - 01:40 PM, said:
............I suggest we try and break away from Bradford completely, we have nothing in common with the town and need nothing from them that we can't pay for privately with our council tax.

I have copied the above quote from the Burley Library Thread as it moves discussions into a whole new area.

Now that is quite an idea. You are absolutely right in that we have nothing in common with Bradford and our attachment to it is nothing more than a quirk of geography - i.e. the river Wharfe was historically the boundary with North Yourshire because it is an obvious "line" on the map and on the ground. However with modern surveying techniques, this is irrelevant. I suggest that we are more of a rural community by reality and inclination albeit one that houses many Leeds commuters (which is not Bradford in any case - and by comparison, virtually no-one commutes to Bradford, just check out the trains). A more natural barrier between our rural selves and the industrial Aire Valley is the Moor itself.

Maybe we could break away and join North Yorkshire (although I think their council tax may actually be slightly higher). I am sure I heard somewhere that if enough voters vote in favour of such a thing, it can happen although I have no idea how this works - anyone know?

I wonder if a viable alternative might be to have a Wharfedale District which could include Addingham, Ilkley, Burley, Otley, Pool and Arthington (if they were willing)all of which are quite separate and distinct from their "parent" local authorities. I think I would stop there as Harewood is not really in the Wharfe Valley and in the other direction, Skipton is not on the Wharfe. Menston is rapidly becoming part of Guiseley so I would not include that either - although they might not agree.

[Sebastian-Smythe]

The sooner the Wharfedale crew are away from Bradford the better for all of us.
There are those who say it's not possible, but nowts possible if you don't try.

[Matt]

It's not a new idea, but it is one that is acheivable. The stumbling block to home rule, however, might well be that Otley and Ilkley don't always see eye to eye

A Wharfedale council is completely plausible and I've actually been giving some serious thought to it. There is an agument that 'bigger is better', but whilst that is often true when it comes to procuring services, it's rarely true when it comes to delivering them efficently.

I don't agree with the comments about Bradford in the second post, which don't really advance the argument.

There is something in this to be considered.

My instinct at the moment is that the best way to deliver this is increasing devolution of powers to parish councils and area committees, then looking at joint working between Parish Councils, rather than revolution. But I am not fully convinced either way. I am convinced that a Wharfedale authority would be better and more accountable, the question is how to get there. It's certainly where I'd like to go, and yes - of course it's possible.

I do what to see where the current Government heads in terms of devolving powers and local government re-organisation, that may give a clearer steer on whether this would be a practical project in the shorter term.

Matt

[weirdmusic]

What powers would you want a Wharfedale Council to have?  
What services would you be looking to buy-in?

[appropriatebridge]

Am I right in thinking thet the Local Government Boundaries Commission For England are currently reviewing boundaries anyway - see here in which case this might be a good time to stir the pot.

Does an area have to have a "critical mass" to be allowed to stand alone as presumably some services would not be viable if the areas were not large enough although I suppose areas could jointly contract for services.

If we possibly can, I think we should flee Bradford as it is painfully obvious that it is spiralling downwards and without some huge Government investment to prime the pump (which hardly seems likely in the current climate)Bradford is doomed as far as I can see.

One advantage to parents might be that if space at Ilkley Grammar was insufficient, children would not be sent (or tried to be sent) to Keighley!

[Flas# #arry]

Apparently someone has complained to the guys who maintain these boards about my use of the word "Bradistan". I've been asked to consider editing out the word.

Can I suggest that the person who complained gets up to speed with current news and culture? and also gets a life?

From Wikipedia

"Bradford is famous for its large Pakistani population and is often dubbed Bradistan by both Pakistani Britons and the British themselves"

http://www.newstates...ritish-pakistan

http://www.granta.co...-Only/Bradistan

http://dilnawazinqalabi.blogspot.com/

Bradford is being celebrated as being a little part of Pakistan.

Now personally I feel all this is of little benefit to Burley or Ilkley where I would imagine less than 2% of the population has any connections with Pakistan, does that make me a racist?


Edit/ looks like the tippex has already been taken to my post anyway, hope who ever did this feels very silly after reading my links.

[Sebastian-Smythe]

Flas# #arry, on 20 December 2010 - 04:09 PM, said:

Apparently someone has complained to the guys who maintain these boards about my use of the word "Bradistan". I've been asked to consider editing out the word.

Can I suggest that the person who complained gets up to speed with current news and culture? and also gets a life?

From Wikipedia

"Bradford is famous for its large Pakistani population and is often dubbed Bradistan by both Pakistani Britons and the British themselves"

http://www.newstates...ritish-pakistan

http://www.granta.co...-Only/Bradistan

http://dilnawazinqalabi.blogspot.com/

Bradford is being celebrated as being a little part of Pakistan.

Now personally I feel all this is of little benefit to Burley or Ilkley where I would imagine less than 2% of the population has any connections with Pakistan, does that make me a racist?


Edit/ looks like the tippex has already been taken to my post anyway, hope who ever did this feels very silly after reading my links.

I can't see you being racist when some of our taxi lads refer to that place over t'ill as Bradistan.
Perhaps someone versed in the languages of the sub continent would inform those who are not what 'istan'
after a word means. For example Afgan-istan, Pak-istan, Kurd-istan, get my drift.

[Wharfedale]

The word being discussed is not the real issue; it’s the context in which it was used coupled with the poster not responding to those concerns despite being given two weeks to do so.

Moderation on this forum is very rare, and in this instance the original poster was given the chance to consider ‘self moderating’ or discussing this issue, but that opportunity was not taken up. If a forum member does not respond to messages from Moderators in a reasonable time then it leaves the moderator with little option other than to remove or amend the post.

[marygill]

Welcome back Wharfedale, thought you had moved on.
It has been rather quiet without your provocative remarks, come on give it your best shot!!

[Flas# #arry]

Wharfedale, on 01 January 2011 - 09:29 AM, said:

The word being discussed is not the real issue; it’s the context in which it was used coupled with the poster not responding to those concerns despite being given two weeks to do so.

Moderation on this forum is very rare, and in this instance the original poster was given the chance to consider ‘self moderating’ or discussing this issue, but that opportunity was not taken up. If a forum member does not respond to messages from Moderators in a reasonable time then it leaves the moderator with little option other than to remove or amend the post.

This is actually quite disgusting.

I'm not joined by the hip to my inbox and as very little happens on these boards, I visit them infrequently.

If a word offends Mr Palmer then he is of course quite within his rights to have his henchmen censor it, but since changing the word in this case completely changes the meaning of the post, then it might have been politically correct and polite to add the line "[censored by moderator]" .

As can be seen from the Halal thread, it is fine for everyone including the board owner to spread disinformation about a race issue, but I have taken the trouble to prove this to be wrong. It is the same on this thread, don't insinuate that I am a racist, I am a realist.

In this thread (opinions expressed are those of the poster and not the board management) I simply state that we have more in common with Harrogate (Spa town, multicultural, wealthy, a country town) than we do with one describes thus:

Quote from US American Embassy via wikileaks

Bradford is a West YORKSHIRE
industrial city whose 2001 population of 294,000 included an
estimated 75,000 Muslims (25%), predominantly of Pakistani
origin. Bradford has the largest Muslim population in the UK
outside of London, and no single London borough
(neighborhood) has as large a Muslim population.

Unemployment rates were higher for Muslims than any other
religion, for both men and women. Muslim male unemployment
rate was 13% in 2004, and for women it was 18%.

-- Muslims between the ages of 16 and 24 had the highest
unemployment rates at 28%; 11% of Muslims over the age of 25
were unemployed.

-- Muslims were most likely to be unavailable or not actively
seeking work due to reasons such as disability, being a
student, or looking after the family and home. 31% of
working-age men were economically inactive, as were 69% of
working-age women.

-- With 34% of Muslims under the age of 16 in 2001, Muslims
have the youngest age profile of all the religious groups in
Great Britain. Less than one in ten were aged 65 or older.

According to MWUK, arranged marriages in the Muslim
community are creating unusually large population growth in
areas where Muslims predominate, since first-generation
families tend to have larger numbers of children (based on
published research and a comparison of the 1991 and 2001
census). For example, in the eighties the Bradford (city)
Council estimated that the Muslim population would reach
130,000 by 2030 and then level off. Now the projection is
for 130,000 by 2020 and rising. Bradford is a West YORKSHIRE
industrial city whose 2001 population of 294,000 included an
estimated 75,000 Muslims (25%), predominantly of Pakistani
origin. Bradford has the largest Muslim population in the UK
outside of London, and no single London borough
(neighborhood) has as large a Muslim population.

If my comments are racist then a crime has been committed, send the police to my door for suggesting that I would rather that Burley and Ilkley's council tax was spent on Burley and Ilkley's needs and not dropped into the black hole of Bradford's economy.

Please either remove your censorship from my post or remove me as a registered user.

[Wharfedale]

A complaint was made, you were given the chance to respond and after two weeks of not doing so, a Moderator edited your post. No accusation of racism has been made to the best of my knowledge.

The decision has been made and it stands unless a compelling argument is made to reinstate the post. To date one has not been made.

If you feel the need to cancel your membership then that's unto you.

If you wish to discuss further then by all means do so, however you might find PM more appropriate to enable to thread to stay on topic.

Kind regards, Wharfedale.

[Flas# #arry]

Well shock horror, I took it upon myself to replace the offensive word removed by Cllr Matt Palmer and the post was therefore deleted by Wharfedale who sends some lame PMs pleading that the the delay in me replying is the reason for his censorship.

What's the point of a forum where free speech isn't allowed?


Cancel my membership I want no part of this politically motivated dross, I suggest anyone interested in upholding the truth does the same.

[Matt]

Hi all,

Sorry about the above diversion of what was originally a sensible question - for clarity, the forum rules apply equally to all. There is an obligation on all of use to keep the forum a friendly place and try not to cause offense. It's run in that spirit by volunteers and all members are asked to respect that.

There is of course a process for disagreeing with a moderator decision, this is stated in the forum rules.

Happy new year to everyone!

Thanks

Matt

[weirdmusic]

To get back to the topic - what would be the process whereby Burley could leave Bradford MDC?
Could we declare independence as per the film "Passport To Pimlico"?

[blunt pencil]

I often wonder if it matters which MBC we belong to. Neither would go out of their way for Burley. All will take as much money as they can off us.

I thought the multi-tier representation was supposed to be the way forward for local democracy - i.e.

We have a parish council that is staffed and run by Burley, for Burley

The parish council make representations to Bradford MBC

The MBC choose to ignore it and do whatever they want

Parish council make the best of it, Burley members get on with it or probably just dont notice or care


And our member of parliament ? Well i cant even remember who he/ she is. But they dont really do anything for Burley anyway

[Grumpy]

What has the MP to do with the issue of whether Burley should remain with Bradford?

Does the fact that you claim not to know he is not show how out of touch you are?

Personally I prefer an MP who sees his job as being to conduct parliamentary business, rather than spend most of his time seeking publicity in his constituency. The Lib dim MP for Otley falls into the latter category and puts an awful lot of resource into getting his name in the local papers every week for "supporting local issues" however barmy and irrelevant to the role of an MP.

[blunt pencil]

I do agree with the "Lib Dim" comment


Nobody has yet told me who the local MP is ? and i thought we were in Shipley ward, NOT otley


As for what has the role of an MP got to do with it - well grumpy, the local council and community voted against the building of the new Tesco in ilkley. It went to appeal and the decision was overturned by the government department responsible.

Hence my point - and you are right, what has a local council issue got to do with MP's.

[appropriatebridge]

blunt pencil, on 02 January 2011 - 02:27 PM, said:

I do agree with the "Lib Dim" comment


Nobody has yet told me who the local MP is ? and i thought we were in Shipley ward, NOT otley

As for what has the role of an MP got to do with it - well grumpy, the local council and community voted against the building of the new Tesco in ilkley. It went to appeal and the decision was overturned by the government department responsible.

Hence my point - and you are right, what has a local council issue got to do with MP's.

It is a pretty poor show when someone doesn't know who their MP is or can't even be bothered to look it up. It takes about 5 seconds on Google if you really don't know. However in the spirit of helpfulness, you can locate any MP and find out something about his/her activities at http://www.theyworkforyou.com/. To make things even easier, I can advise that the MP for Burley is Philip Davies (Conservative).

Returning to the actual subject of this thread, I did pose a question or two in my post of 11/12/10 about the feasibility of escaping Bradford MDC. I was rather hoping Matt Palmer might know the answers as our probable best source (as far as I know) of local political expertese - although he probably got side tracked by the "istan" issue. If it is actually possible to leave Bradford MDC, how do we go about it. Presumably there would have to be some local vote?

This Government reckons that the views of local people are to be taken increasingly into account and it would be nice to see some evidence of that happening if enough people wanted this - or was the Government just voicing empty rhetoric?

[spyglass]

If you needed any more reason to quit Bradford see the Times today. Headline “Revealed: conspiracy of silence on UK sex gangs”. The article reveals mainly Pakistani gangs preying on young mostly white girls for sex. Some of them were from decent families but were seduced by money/drink/drugs. Non Muslim girls are evidently held in low esteem and considered of low morals so they dont matter. The article says that of a total of 56 people found guilty 50 were Muslim and the majority “members of the British Pakistani community”.

Keighley is singled out as one bad area where “up to 50 men are believed to be involved” although only two (Delwar Hussain and Shabir Ahmed) were convicted.

The Pakistani population in Bradford MDC continues to increase and it may be only a matter of time before they have a majority in the decision making of Bradford MDC. We need to get out as soon as possible before this happens and we get some sort of Muslim/Sharia laws or culture imposed on the rest of us one way or another whether we like it or not. We certainly need to ensure that none of our children (especially the female ones) ever get sent to Keighley where some of these disgusating predators lurk as it is unlikely this culture of abuse will stop if the conspiracy of silence means only 2 out of a suspected 50 get convicted.

[Flas# #arry]

Oh dear, I am being censored for saying much less that that Spyglass!