104 replies to this topic

[Rachel88]

Sorry Mary, but this still isn't adding up for me. I'm not denying that Bradford has its problems, and I have close relatives who grew up there, but I can't see how that automatically means that burley will go the same way in the future. What are people basing this worry on? A pizza shop and some shutters?

How long has burley been in Bradford council now, and how long has Bradford been a poor area and burley been well off? Name a place in the uk where there aren't poor places and rich places under the same council. I'm sorry, I just don't understand the paranoia.

[Sebastian-Smythe]

Rachel88, on 09 January 2011 - 01:33 PM, said:

Sorry Mary, but this still isn't adding up for me. I'm not denying that Bradford has its problems, and I have close relatives who grew up there, but I can't see how that automatically means that burley will go the same way in the future. What are people basing this worry on? A pizza shop and some shutters?

How long has burley been in Bradford council now, and how long has Bradford been a poor area and burley been well off? Name a place in the uk where there aren't poor places and rich places under the same council. I'm sorry, I just don't understand the paranoia.

OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT and the sooner the better.

[nabbers]

weirdmusic, on 09 January 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

http://news.bbc.co.u...ituency/d99.stm 48% is hardly a ringing endorsement. 52% didn't vote for him.

I did (Smiley face )

[Grumpy]

MrsM, on 08 January 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

and that has nothing to do with high caseloads, under resourcing, unworkable systems not to mention the overly bureaucratic legislation we currently have in place. Unless the legislation is changed (unlikely in the short term) private companies would have to ahdere to those bureaucratic systems, yet they would still need to make a profit. What price will be put on a child's life I wonder.



Anyway that is not really the point I was trying to make. I was trying to highlight that LA'a have a huge remit, and personally I would be interested in the detail of exactly how this would work, otherwise we could potentially be in a situation where we are paying more and getting less!

Well I suspect the guys who maintain aircraft for the likes of Easyjet could make exactly the same claims re excessive workload and (necessary) bureaucratic legislation and controls. Yet they manage. And If they get it wrong the consequences for themselves, both the company and individuals, are likely to me more severe than anyone in local government could expect. Financial ruin, loss of jobs, prosecution and threat of imprisonment, rather than a cosy whitewash report concluding that "lessons will be learnt".

That apart I totally agree with you-there is little point pushing for this unless there is a clear idea of how we might pay less and/or get more.

[Grumpy]

Rachel88, on 08 January 2011 - 11:30 PM, said:

Is this a wind-up, or are you actually for real? And there was I, pleased to be moving into a multi-racial area with a vibrant and varied culture, thinking how nice everyone was.

I'm actually bordering on speechless.

Am I actually for real? Just about.

Are you actually Billy Bragg?
He seems to have made a career out of advocating multi-culturalism and attacking anyone suggesting otherwise.
However he chooses not to live amongst it himself, moving his family to an almost totally "white" rural area.

[Rachel88]

Grumpy, on 10 January 2011 - 10:39 AM, said:

Am I actually for real? Just about.

Are you actually Billy Bragg?
He seems to have made a career out of advocating multi-culturalism and attacking anyone suggesting otherwise.
However he chooses not to live amongst it himself, moving his family to an almost totally "white" rural area.

OK yes, you think I'm being naive because I don't live in the middle of Bradford and I'm sitting in a nice little house in Burley saying how marvellous multiculturalism is, but I don't have drug dealers outside my house, but you don't need a multicultural population to create social problems.

I've just moved from a very small house in south Lincoln that had [white, English] people growing and dealing drugs next door, selling them to [white, English] kids who would come and go day and night on their bikes. There was also a brothel across the road, and regular police cars cruising up and down the street. But it was a tip because it was a city centre with house prices that were pretty much on the floor. Those people couldn't afford to come within spitting distance of somewhere like Burley in their wildest dreams.

I understand the worry that significant investment in Bradford might reduce what's available to us, but does nobody want to be part of helping out with that? If not, why not?

[marygill]

Rachel88, on 10 January 2011 - 11:57 AM, said:

I understand the worry that significant investment in Bradford might reduce what's available to us, but does nobody want to be part of helping out with that? If not, why not?

Because we already help out by paying over the odds council tax, not getting roads gritted and bins emptied so must save them a fortune.
No doubt this is spent on publishing a useless newspaper telling us how wonderful they are, paying various people vast sums of money to make sure they are being politically correct and doing everything in triplicate.

The people who make Burley what it is and who put themsleves out to make this a fabulous place to be are the many tireless volunteers, who ensure a Xmas display to rival anywhere, a village green to be proud of, Burley House field to play in and a genuine feel for what being a village is all about.

The people who run Bradford are bogged down by issues that relate to the city and surrounding close by areas, they are in no way relevant to what the people here want, but as I said they seem to work on a one size fits all and big is beautiful, well it aint from my point of view.

[nabbers]

marygill, on 10 January 2011 - 01:03 PM, said:

Because we already help out by paying over the odds council tax, not getting roads gritted and bins emptied so must save them a fortune.
No doubt this is spent on publishing a useless newspaper telling us how wonderful they are, paying various people vast sums of money to make sure they are being politically correct and doing everything in triplicate.

The people who make Burley what it is and who put themsleves out to make this a fabulous place to be are the many tireless volunteers, who ensure a Xmas display to rival anywhere, a village green to be proud of, Burley House field to play in and a genuine feel for what being a village is all about.

The people who run Bradford are bogged down by issues that relate to the city and surrounding close by areas, they are in no way relevant to what the people here want, but as I said they seem to work on a one size fits all and big is beautiful, well it aint from my point of view.

Mary Gill You should run for parliament! You tell it like it is.


BTW Ilkley UDC was a pretty good local council until they re structured things. It had everything a council needs, right here where we need it.

I think we should ask to be attached to Harrogate.

[marygill]

nabbers, on 10 January 2011 - 01:59 PM, said:

Mary Gill You should run for parliament! You tell it like it is.


BTW Ilkley UDC was a pretty good local council until they re structured things. It had everything a council needs, right here where we need it.

I think we should ask to be attached to Harrogate.

Only because I am not trying to be all things to all people Nabbers, and telling the truth as I see it, which I do realise many people may find unpalatable.
I do agree about the old Ilkley UDC at least they were local and knew what things really mattered to a local community

[wharfedalegas]

marygill, on 10 January 2011 - 01:03 PM, said:

Because we already help out by paying over the odds council tax, not getting roads gritted and bins emptied so must save them a fortune.
No doubt this is spent on publishing a useless newspaper telling us how wonderful they are, paying various people vast sums of money to make sure they are being politically correct and doing everything in triplicate.

The people who make Burley what it is and who put themsleves out to make this a fabulous place to be are the many tireless volunteers, who ensure a Xmas display to rival anywhere, a village green to be proud of, Burley House field to play in and a genuine feel for what being a village is all about.

The people who run Bradford are bogged down by issues that relate to the city and surrounding close by areas, they are in no way relevant to what the people here want, but as I said they seem to work on a one size fits all and big is beautiful, well it aint from my point of view.

It has long been discussed by many in the south east of England that they would be a lot better off if they abandoned the rest of the UK including Yorkshire.

We would really be in the s*** up here in Yorkshire if that happened!!

Unlike what the daily mail thinks, the good folks of the south east, like the majority of the good folk of Burley do not wish ill of our poor hard working neighbours.

[Rachel88]

wharfedalegas, on 10 January 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:

Unlike what the daily mail thinks, the good folks of the south east, like the majority of the good folk of Burley do not wish ill of our poor hard working neighbours.

Hear hear. What the hell happened to the good samaritan? Did he decide he wanted to build that extension after all and get his street pedestrianised?

[Sebastian-Smythe]

Rachel88, on 10 January 2011 - 07:46 PM, said:

Hear hear. What the hell happened to the good samaritan? Did he decide he wanted to build that extension after all and get his street pedestrianised?

The good Samaritan wasn't a Yorkshireman.

Compared to where you've come from folk in this fair valley may sound parochial.
But we knew what it was like before Bratford took over. OK the various UDCs made mistakes,
but they were local UDCs. They understood what folk in their respective areas wanted and
tried hard to provide.

Yorkshire, like Linconshire, is made up of three ancient Ridings. The folk therein are proud of
their respective heritages. Multi whatever was a none starter. Folk find their own levels.
What folk don't like is their hard earned brass going it massive holes or city centre duck ponds
when there are more needy things in this valley.

[matthew]

marygill, on 09 January 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

[...]spend a fortnight in the middle of Bradford or Keighley. These are truly vibrant multi race places with all the crime, gangs and terrible drug problems that goes along with them, and where a white women would not dare walk in certain areas at night.[...] This isn't about being racist.

Are you seriously suggesting that areas where people from ethnic minorities live are hot houses of crime, gangs, drug abuse and attacks on 'white women' in comparison to other areas of the UK?
Because if you are, the above statement is very much about being racist

marygill, on 09 January 2011 - 10:12 AM, said:

putting our own into second place by bending over to please others to the point of stupidity is not the way forward.

do you have ANY evidence of this taking place? I'd love to read it

nabbers, on 07 January 2011 - 11:42 PM, said:

Where are the statistics you are referring to Matthew? I'd like to take a look at them, being googling trying to find them for myself and all I came up with was

"in 17 court cases since 1997 where groups of men were prosecuted, 53 of the 56 people found guilty were Asian, 50 of them Muslim, while just three were white, according to The Times...."

1. No official data exists on the ethnic or religious background of perpetrators of this form of child abuse, and local charities have stated publicly that they do not consider it a race issue. But it is worth noting that, when asked by the Times to collate its recent work according to ethnicity, Engage – based in Blackburn and one of the largest multi-agency organisations working on this issue – found that in the past year that 80% of offenders were white. (the Guardian)

2. In the latest year for which we have data (2007/8), Lancashire police arrested 627 people for sexual offences. 0.3% of these were Pakistanis. That’s two people. 85.5% were white British. In Lancashire, there are 1,296,900 white Brits and 45,000 Pakistanis. This means that 4.163 per 10,000 white Brits were arrested for a sex crime, compared to 0.44 Pakistanis. (Home Office)

3. watch last night's Newsnight on iplayer
Sorry, can't hyperlink

[Grumpy]

[quote name='Sebastian-Smythe' date='11 January 2011 - 01:48 PM' timestamp='1294753699' post='6222']
The good Samaritan wasn't a Yorkshireman.

Compared to where you've come from folk in this fair valley may sound parochial.
But we knew what it was like before Bratford took over. OK the various UDCs made mistakes,
but they were local UDCs. They understood what folk in their respective areas wanted and
tried hard to provide.

I used to know the former Assistant Treasurer of Morley UDC, who was heavily involved in the 1974 local government reorganisation.

He liked to recall of when the Authorities who were to combine into the new Leeds had a meeting to discuss how much they were to "chip in" to the new Authority. The smaller ones all had considerable balances available and offered to make significant contributions, till it came to the turn of Leeds MBC. Leeds, which had been charging the highest rates, was skint and could contribute nothing. So rather than see all their balances disappear into Leeds, the smaller authorities want on a spending spree-hence for example the sports centres in Morley Airborough and Rothwell.

He said it was the same throughout the country. The smaller authorities were generally better run, and generally charged lower rates. Councillors knew each other and their communities and generally put their interests first irrespective of party politics. The larger authorities were more likely to be run by the politically ambitious "polytechnic lecturer" types who wanted to be seen to be doing something (aka spending) and implementing government initiatives, however barmy. So Leeds ran up debt on such as multi storey blocks of flats, industrially manufactured housing etc,in order to get extra Government grants, whilst the smaller authories took a longer view and stuck to the proven ways.

So perhaps it was the same here

[Sebastian-Smythe]

.........whilst the smaller authories took a longer view and stuck to the proven ways.

Exactly.

Perhaps young Mathew would do best to look at history and do a bit of his own
research through ALL communities. It's surprising how many share the same views.

[matthew]

Sebastian-Smythe, on 11 January 2011 - 03:11 PM, said:

.........whilst the smaller authories took a longer view and stuck to the proven ways.

Exactly.

Perhaps young Mathew would do best to look at history and do a bit of his own
research through ALL communities. It's surprising how many share the same views.

If you want to attempt to patronise me, at least spell my name right. Oh, and make a point which is coherent. What are you trying to say?

[wharfedalegas]

Sebastian-Smythe, on 11 January 2011 - 01:48 PM, said:

The good Samaritan wasn't a Yorkshireman.

Compared to where you've come from folk in this fair valley may sound parochial.
But we knew what it was like before Bratford took over. OK the various UDCs made mistakes,
but they were local UDCs. They understood what folk in their respective areas wanted and
tried hard to provide.

Yorkshire, like Linconshire, is made up of three ancient Ridings. The folk therein are proud of
their respective heritages. Multi whatever was a none starter. Folk find their own levels.
What folk don't like is their hard earned brass going it massive holes or city centre duck ponds
when there are more needy things in this valley.

I am sure back in the old days Yorkshire generated enough "brass" to do what it wanted !

We are now leaving in 2011 , and since Thatcher and her crew ensured since the early 80's that the vast majority of manufacturing industries in Yorkshire was laid to waste we don't really earn a bean up here !

In reality the "hard earned brass" the majority of people in Yorkshire get paid comes from a directly from some form a taxation.

[marygill]

[quote name='matthew' date='11 January 2011 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1294754567' post='6223']
Are you seriously suggesting that areas where people from ethnic minorities live are hot houses of crime, gangs, drug abuse and attacks on 'white women' in comparison to other areas of the UK?
Because if you are, the above statement is very much about being racist

I never mentioned ethnic minorities you did, I said multi racial and that includes all cultures as far as I'm concerned, so don't see bogeymen where there are none.

[appropriatebridge]

marygill, on 10 January 2011 - 01:03 PM, said:

Because we already help out by paying over the odds council tax, not getting roads gritted and bins emptied so must save them a fortune.
No doubt this is spent on publishing a useless newspaper telling us how wonderful they are, paying various people vast sums of money to make sure they are being politically correct and doing everything in triplicate.

The people who make Burley what it is and who put themsleves out to make this a fabulous place to be are the many tireless volunteers, who ensure a Xmas display to rival anywhere, a village green to be proud of, Burley House field to play in and a genuine feel for what being a village is all about.

The people who run Bradford are bogged down by issues that relate to the city and surrounding close by areas, they are in no way relevant to what the people here want, but as I said they seem to work on a one size fits all and big is beautiful, well it aint from my point of view.

When I suggested debating the possibility of a breakaway from Bradford in my original post, it had nothing to do with race but what Marygill brilliantly summed up in her post above "The people who run Bradford are bogged down by issues that relate to the city and surrounding close by areas, they are in no way relevant to what the people here want". That is how I feel and almost all of my friends in the area seem to feel the same way.

Ethnic problems may be a factor in issues that affect the City but that is all, one factor, amongst many many others (unemployment, traffic congestion, demise of industry and shops to name but 4). Please let us not allow the debate to be shunted into a siding about which we can do nothing anyway. Lets concentrate on identifying the difficuties of breaking away, what can be done about them and above all of course, do the majority actually want to break away. Matt/Administrators, how do we organise a poll on here to find out? Having asked that, of course a poll on this Forum could hardly be said to be representative of the whole village as (relatively) so few use it. Maybe a voting slip with the next parish newsletter would be better. Matt - in an earlier post, you said you had been thinking about this issue already so you must have some thoughts on viability, processes etc?

[matthew]

marygill, on 11 January 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

I never mentioned ethnic minorities you did, I said multi racial and that includes all cultures as far as I'm concerned, so don't see bogeymen where there are none.

Ok, so you are saying that in the UK, areas that are not multicultural (I assume you mean indiginous white only?) suffer from less crime, gangs, drug abuse, attacks on 'white women' than areas that have more than one ethnic group in them?

If so how would you explain this?