the quote was made directly for the youth!!I dont need a dictionary, That was the context it which it was said. I found it contemtious.WHICH means condescending, arrogant, high and mighty. that will save time getting out the dictionary hahaha.Why do people have to be so head strong!! i admit i can be when my cage is rattled, but it keeps me young at heart and i would say i am a good judge of character.....by gum theres some characters on here!! They can give but cant take. i opologised earlier but get nothing but alot of grief!! lighten up you lot!!! ITS nearly time for my bed yawnnnnnnnn! but i need to check out more of this site.I LOVE TO SEE WHAT THIS SITE OFFERS TO EVERYONE.
14
New Co-Op Ghetto
Started by blunt pencil, Jan 01 2011 03:31 PM
114 replies to this topic
#102
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Posted 12 August 2011 - 11:03 AM
Any location for a Co-op (new or existing) is going to be controversial. Delivery lorries will cause traffic problems either by virtue of their size, access needs or noise. If the location is away from the rest of the shops, it will probably subtract from others’ trade as people will take the line of least resistance and if they can get all of what they want at the Co-op, they will not patronise the others.
In principle, I agree that the co-location of a park and alcohol outsales is undesirable but let’s face it, it is not very far from the existing shop to the park.
However, one thing that I don’t think anyone has mentioned is what is going to happen to the existing building if the Co-op move? It is quite large for a small business (and not big enough for a large one). An empty slowly decaying building in such a prime village location will not be good for anyone.
I do not actually accept that the library will be any more or less at risk in a new Co-op building. The existing library looks reasonably sound and is presumably fully paid for and owned by the council. Although its age will mean maintenance issues, I do not believe they will be sufficiently onerous to of themselves put it at risk. Any organisation will tell you that their biggest cost is staff so if the future of a Burley library is not under threat by Bradford now, it is unlikely to be in the future just because of the building.
A Co-op where the library currently is located will cause disruption to the lives of the people who live on Grange Road. It is bound to and nothing the architects/planners can say or do can alter that fact. People who decided to live on Grange Road did so in the knowledge of what is there now and it is simply unfair to inflict in effect a small supermarket on them. Those that are in favour should stop and ask themselves if they would like a Co-op across the road or close to their house. At least the people who chose to live close to the current shop knew shops were there when they decided to move so presumably do not mind.
My own conclusion is that the Co-op is best left where it is. It attracts people to the centre of the village where the other shops, with the possible exception of Costcutter, derive some benefit from co-location. Let us keep as much of the commercial centre of the village in its centre as possible. Parking immediately outside the shop should be restricted and used for deliveries only. Although Burley is not awash with parking, we are only talking about the loss of space for 4 or 5 cars which hardly makes a vast difference to the overall position.
If the Co-op need more internal space (which it clearly does) then it should consider whether it really needs so much of its current space devoted to drink. It seems to have a totally disproportionate amount of wine for instance for a village shop.
A decent designer could do much to improve the internal layout, possibly with some minor structural alterations, and any rules available to enforce improvement of the exterior relative to its conservation area status should be rigorously enforced. This should not really be necessary as one would have thought that such a long established company would have had a more responsible attitude to its hosts (i.e. Burley).
I suspect one reason the Co-op want a new building is because they would probably have to close the existing shop for a period for refurbishment and they do not want to lose trade. In that instance, customers might find that some of the other excellent shops in Burley provide a nicer alternative. The Co-op want their cake and to eat it.
In principle, I agree that the co-location of a park and alcohol outsales is undesirable but let’s face it, it is not very far from the existing shop to the park.
However, one thing that I don’t think anyone has mentioned is what is going to happen to the existing building if the Co-op move? It is quite large for a small business (and not big enough for a large one). An empty slowly decaying building in such a prime village location will not be good for anyone.
I do not actually accept that the library will be any more or less at risk in a new Co-op building. The existing library looks reasonably sound and is presumably fully paid for and owned by the council. Although its age will mean maintenance issues, I do not believe they will be sufficiently onerous to of themselves put it at risk. Any organisation will tell you that their biggest cost is staff so if the future of a Burley library is not under threat by Bradford now, it is unlikely to be in the future just because of the building.
A Co-op where the library currently is located will cause disruption to the lives of the people who live on Grange Road. It is bound to and nothing the architects/planners can say or do can alter that fact. People who decided to live on Grange Road did so in the knowledge of what is there now and it is simply unfair to inflict in effect a small supermarket on them. Those that are in favour should stop and ask themselves if they would like a Co-op across the road or close to their house. At least the people who chose to live close to the current shop knew shops were there when they decided to move so presumably do not mind.
My own conclusion is that the Co-op is best left where it is. It attracts people to the centre of the village where the other shops, with the possible exception of Costcutter, derive some benefit from co-location. Let us keep as much of the commercial centre of the village in its centre as possible. Parking immediately outside the shop should be restricted and used for deliveries only. Although Burley is not awash with parking, we are only talking about the loss of space for 4 or 5 cars which hardly makes a vast difference to the overall position.
If the Co-op need more internal space (which it clearly does) then it should consider whether it really needs so much of its current space devoted to drink. It seems to have a totally disproportionate amount of wine for instance for a village shop.
A decent designer could do much to improve the internal layout, possibly with some minor structural alterations, and any rules available to enforce improvement of the exterior relative to its conservation area status should be rigorously enforced. This should not really be necessary as one would have thought that such a long established company would have had a more responsible attitude to its hosts (i.e. Burley).
I suspect one reason the Co-op want a new building is because they would probably have to close the existing shop for a period for refurbishment and they do not want to lose trade. In that instance, customers might find that some of the other excellent shops in Burley provide a nicer alternative. The Co-op want their cake and to eat it.
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Posted 12 August 2011 - 05:46 PM
appropriatebridge, on 12 August 2011 - 11:03 AM, said:
Any location for a Co-op (new or existing) is going to be controversial. Delivery lorries will cause traffic problems either by virtue of their size, access needs or noise. If the location is away from the rest of the shops, it will probably subtract from others’ trade as people will take the line of least resistance and if they can get all of what they want at the Co-op, they will not patronise the others.
In principle, I agree that the co-location of a park and alcohol outsales is undesirable but let’s face it, it is not very far from the existing shop to the park.
However, one thing that I don’t think anyone has mentioned is what is going to happen to the existing building if the Co-op move? It is quite large for a small business (and not big enough for a large one). An empty slowly decaying building in such a prime village location will not be good for anyone.
I do not actually accept that the library will be any more or less at risk in a new Co-op building. The existing library looks reasonably sound and is presumably fully paid for and owned by the council. Although its age will mean maintenance issues, I do not believe they will be sufficiently onerous to of themselves put it at risk. Any organisation will tell you that their biggest cost is staff so if the future of a Burley library is not under threat by Bradford now, it is unlikely to be in the future just because of the building.
A Co-op where the library currently is located will cause disruption to the lives of the people who live on Grange Road. It is bound to and nothing the architects/planners can say or do can alter that fact. People who decided to live on Grange Road did so in the knowledge of what is there now and it is simply unfair to inflict in effect a small supermarket on them. Those that are in favour should stop and ask themselves if they would like a Co-op across the road or close to their house. At least the people who chose to live close to the current shop knew shops were there when they decided to move so presumably do not mind.
My own conclusion is that the Co-op is best left where it is. It attracts people to the centre of the village where the other shops, with the possible exception of Costcutter, derive some benefit from co-location. Let us keep as much of the commercial centre of the village in its centre as possible. Parking immediately outside the shop should be restricted and used for deliveries only. Although Burley is not awash with parking, we are only talking about the loss of space for 4 or 5 cars which hardly makes a vast difference to the overall position.
If the Co-op need more internal space (which it clearly does) then it should consider whether it really needs so much of its current space devoted to drink. It seems to have a totally disproportionate amount of wine for instance for a village shop.
A decent designer could do much to improve the internal layout, possibly with some minor structural alterations, and any rules available to enforce improvement of the exterior relative to its conservation area status should be rigorously enforced. This should not really be necessary as one would have thought that such a long established company would have had a more responsible attitude to its hosts (i.e. Burley).
I suspect one reason the Co-op want a new building is because they would probably have to close the existing shop for a period for refurbishment and they do not want to lose trade. In that instance, customers might find that some of the other excellent shops in Burley provide a nicer alternative. The Co-op want their cake and to eat it.
In principle, I agree that the co-location of a park and alcohol outsales is undesirable but let’s face it, it is not very far from the existing shop to the park.
However, one thing that I don’t think anyone has mentioned is what is going to happen to the existing building if the Co-op move? It is quite large for a small business (and not big enough for a large one). An empty slowly decaying building in such a prime village location will not be good for anyone.
I do not actually accept that the library will be any more or less at risk in a new Co-op building. The existing library looks reasonably sound and is presumably fully paid for and owned by the council. Although its age will mean maintenance issues, I do not believe they will be sufficiently onerous to of themselves put it at risk. Any organisation will tell you that their biggest cost is staff so if the future of a Burley library is not under threat by Bradford now, it is unlikely to be in the future just because of the building.
A Co-op where the library currently is located will cause disruption to the lives of the people who live on Grange Road. It is bound to and nothing the architects/planners can say or do can alter that fact. People who decided to live on Grange Road did so in the knowledge of what is there now and it is simply unfair to inflict in effect a small supermarket on them. Those that are in favour should stop and ask themselves if they would like a Co-op across the road or close to their house. At least the people who chose to live close to the current shop knew shops were there when they decided to move so presumably do not mind.
My own conclusion is that the Co-op is best left where it is. It attracts people to the centre of the village where the other shops, with the possible exception of Costcutter, derive some benefit from co-location. Let us keep as much of the commercial centre of the village in its centre as possible. Parking immediately outside the shop should be restricted and used for deliveries only. Although Burley is not awash with parking, we are only talking about the loss of space for 4 or 5 cars which hardly makes a vast difference to the overall position.
If the Co-op need more internal space (which it clearly does) then it should consider whether it really needs so much of its current space devoted to drink. It seems to have a totally disproportionate amount of wine for instance for a village shop.
A decent designer could do much to improve the internal layout, possibly with some minor structural alterations, and any rules available to enforce improvement of the exterior relative to its conservation area status should be rigorously enforced. This should not really be necessary as one would have thought that such a long established company would have had a more responsible attitude to its hosts (i.e. Burley).
I suspect one reason the Co-op want a new building is because they would probably have to close the existing shop for a period for refurbishment and they do not want to lose trade. In that instance, customers might find that some of the other excellent shops in Burley provide a nicer alternative. The Co-op want their cake and to eat it.
Refused!! Why!!!! Pavement space!!! I wish all against could go into the coop and look at the store and what facilities if any, it provides to staff and most customers, not much I can tell you. Yes I agree a lot of wine up the stairs, but nothing else can go there, a gentleman lives and owns his flat above in that space. Newspapers go in the middle and a staircase to another flat is right through the middle OF THE SHOP Again planning permission was not given. So i see everyone has an opinion but nobody really knows anything about the structure of the building and why planning permissions was turned down. I think the owners would put the building back to smaller retail shops but I am not to sure of this, again like yourself, i would not like the building to stand vacant.All the shops in the village have always got on and supported each other which I think is fantastic.Then someone gave wrong information and told the shops and paper that the coop was going to be a supermarket causing panic in the village. That person knows who they are and I hope they realize the damage they have done.This is what gossip can do!!!One thing i loved about this village was the solidarity.I am one of hundreds who will not be signing a petition. It began save our library now save our shops!!! We are like PETULANT children. Wreaking havoc!!Some people are just not open minded and do not like things to change!! sad really.!!The coop do not want to move because they will lose sales in a refit!! your quote!! spoilt the great debate. The coop is not fit for purpose so cannot have a refit!! I AM HAPPY to listen to peoples objectives some of them are interesting and a good argument.I TO had some concerns but I do my homework and speak to people. I also am aware of trouble with the traffic concerns with the new coop and grange road. I will say at the moment the coop receive complaints on a regular basis due to the wagon and parking on station road. The wagon i have photo evidence, that when it arrives in the village it comes via the roundabout on main street, then turns down grange road to exit the village as it cannot go under the bridge to Ilkley. 10 years not one accident! if they get the new coop their is a parking and loading bay so the vans wont be parked on the street!
spyglass, on 10 August 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:
The term "yob" applies to anyone who engages in antisocial behaviour. Unlikely but you could have a 10 year old yob or a 90 year lod one.
All my posts have to be pre-approved by the moderator
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#105
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Posted 12 August 2011 - 05:53 PM
peekaboo, on 12 August 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:
HELLO TO YOU ALL THIS LOVELY EVENING. I Agree the coop is very controversial and i think most on here, have a great dislike to the shop, so no matter what was said, its hard for a newby like myself to be heard.I can tell you a designer has looked at that building as i know him well. planners have been and gone.The proposals rejected outright, It has three owners! When anything breaks ceilings, floors its not just the cooperatives job to put things right. They have to go through the correct channels of communication which as you know takes time.The people of burley who are disabled or find it hard to walk, have great difficulty getting in and out of the store. Again a good designer came along, planning permission was put in for disabled access!!accessibility a must have!! Guess what????
Refused!! Why!!!! Pavement space!!! I wish all against could go into the coop and look at the store and what facilities if any, it provides to staff and most customers, not much I can tell you. Yes I agree a lot of wine up the stairs, but nothing else can go there, a gentleman lives and owns his flat above in that space. Newspapers go in the middle and a staircase to another flat is right through the middle OF THE SHOP Again planning permission was not given. So i see everyone has an opinion but nobody really knows anything about the structure of the building and why planning permissions was turned down. I think the owners would put the building back to smaller retail shops but I am not to sure of this, again like yourself, i would not like the building to stand vacant.All the shops in the village have always got on and supported each other which I think is fantastic.Then someone gave wrong information and told the shops and paper that the coop was going to be a supermarket causing panic in the village. That person knows who they are and I hope they realize the damage they have done.This is what gossip can do!!!One thing i loved about this village was the solidarity.I am one of hundreds who will not be signing a petition. It began save our library now save our shops!!! We are like PETULANT children. Wreaking havoc!!Some people are just not open minded and do not like things to change!! sad really.!!The coop do not want to move because they will lose sales in a refit!! your quote!! spoilt the great debate. The coop is not fit for purpose so cannot have a refit!! I AM HAPPY to listen to peoples objectives some of them are interesting and a good argument.I TO had some concerns but I do my homework and speak to people. I also am aware of trouble with the traffic concerns with the new coop and grange road. I will say at the moment the coop receive complaints on a regular basis due to the wagon and parking on station road. The wagon i have photo evidence, that when it arrives in the village it comes via the roundabout on main street, then turns down grange road to exit the village as it cannot go under the bridge to Ilkley. 10 years not one accident! if they get the new coop their is a parking and loading bay so the vans wont be parked on the street!
Refused!! Why!!!! Pavement space!!! I wish all against could go into the coop and look at the store and what facilities if any, it provides to staff and most customers, not much I can tell you. Yes I agree a lot of wine up the stairs, but nothing else can go there, a gentleman lives and owns his flat above in that space. Newspapers go in the middle and a staircase to another flat is right through the middle OF THE SHOP Again planning permission was not given. So i see everyone has an opinion but nobody really knows anything about the structure of the building and why planning permissions was turned down. I think the owners would put the building back to smaller retail shops but I am not to sure of this, again like yourself, i would not like the building to stand vacant.All the shops in the village have always got on and supported each other which I think is fantastic.Then someone gave wrong information and told the shops and paper that the coop was going to be a supermarket causing panic in the village. That person knows who they are and I hope they realize the damage they have done.This is what gossip can do!!!One thing i loved about this village was the solidarity.I am one of hundreds who will not be signing a petition. It began save our library now save our shops!!! We are like PETULANT children. Wreaking havoc!!Some people are just not open minded and do not like things to change!! sad really.!!The coop do not want to move because they will lose sales in a refit!! your quote!! spoilt the great debate. The coop is not fit for purpose so cannot have a refit!! I AM HAPPY to listen to peoples objectives some of them are interesting and a good argument.I TO had some concerns but I do my homework and speak to people. I also am aware of trouble with the traffic concerns with the new coop and grange road. I will say at the moment the coop receive complaints on a regular basis due to the wagon and parking on station road. The wagon i have photo evidence, that when it arrives in the village it comes via the roundabout on main street, then turns down grange road to exit the village as it cannot go under the bridge to Ilkley. 10 years not one accident! if they get the new coop their is a parking and loading bay so the vans wont be parked on the street!
an intelligent well argued response
I would by far prefer the coop to redevelop the existing store and offer a more limited range of stuff in decent surroundings for staff & customers alike
that clearly is not going to happen so sometimes you just have to move on
the library plan at first sight doesn't look too bad - and the theory that moving the sale of alcohol about 50 yards nearer to the park is going to be a major issue is ridiculous
if the scheme goes ahead my major concern would be the existing site
1. who owns it?
2. what alternative uses are available for it?
3. can (will?) the council actively block applications to turn it into yet another take away?
4 The idea of a small retail unit is fine - but in the current economic situation what kind of business is likely to take it on?
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Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:32 PM
[quote name='PhilD' date='12 August 2011 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1313171585' post='7180']
an intelligent well argued response
I would by far prefer the coop to redevelop the existing store and offer a more limited range of stuff in decent surroundings for staff & customers alike
that clearly is not going to happen so sometimes you just have to move on
the library plan at first sight doesn't look too bad - and the theory that moving the sale of alcohol about 50 yards nearer to the park is going to be a major issue is ridiculous
if the scheme goes ahead my major concern would be the existing site
1. who owns it?
2. what alternative uses are available for it?
3. can (will?) the council actively block applications to turn it into yet another take away?
4 The idea of a small retail unit is fine - but in the current economic situation what kind of business is likely to take it on?
[/quote]
hello to you and thank you Phlid. i will try to answer what I can in facts what I cannot ANSWER I can only but try to find out. Three owners...... one is .. Mr Fox owns one flat above the wine. MR ... OWNS the second end section and a foreign person owns the middle. I cannot publish there names although i think everyone knows of the first person.I think it could be split into smaller sections, so in theory you could get two decent shops, but again it would be very hard to get the planning permission, maybe easier on small businesses. I would think the council would encourage applications for small holdings,in this present climate. I AM with you. I would not want another takeaway. it could be a old fashioned sweet shop/ gift. I am sure someone could come up with something this village needs. Lets encourage it!!
[quote name='PhilD' date='12 August 2011 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1313171585' post='7180']
an intelligent well argued response
I would by far prefer the coop to redevelop the existing store and offer a more limited range of stuff in decent surroundings for staff & customers alike
that clearly is not going to happen so sometimes you just have to move on
the library plan at first sight doesn't look too bad - and the theory that moving the sale of alcohol about 50 yards nearer to the park is going to be a major issue is ridiculous
if the scheme goes ahead my major concern would be the existing site
1. who owns it?
2. what alternative uses are available for it?
3. can (will?) the council actively block applications to turn it into yet another take away?
4 The idea of a small retail unit is fine - but in the current economic situation what kind of business is likely to take it on?
[/Iwill get back to you on more, a little later if you will excuse me. thank you.
an intelligent well argued response
I would by far prefer the coop to redevelop the existing store and offer a more limited range of stuff in decent surroundings for staff & customers alike
that clearly is not going to happen so sometimes you just have to move on
the library plan at first sight doesn't look too bad - and the theory that moving the sale of alcohol about 50 yards nearer to the park is going to be a major issue is ridiculous
if the scheme goes ahead my major concern would be the existing site
1. who owns it?
2. what alternative uses are available for it?
3. can (will?) the council actively block applications to turn it into yet another take away?
4 The idea of a small retail unit is fine - but in the current economic situation what kind of business is likely to take it on?
[/quote]
hello to you and thank you Phlid. i will try to answer what I can in facts what I cannot ANSWER I can only but try to find out. Three owners...... one is .. Mr Fox owns one flat above the wine. MR ... OWNS the second end section and a foreign person owns the middle. I cannot publish there names although i think everyone knows of the first person.I think it could be split into smaller sections, so in theory you could get two decent shops, but again it would be very hard to get the planning permission, maybe easier on small businesses. I would think the council would encourage applications for small holdings,in this present climate. I AM with you. I would not want another takeaway. it could be a old fashioned sweet shop/ gift. I am sure someone could come up with something this village needs. Lets encourage it!!
[quote name='PhilD' date='12 August 2011 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1313171585' post='7180']
an intelligent well argued response
I would by far prefer the coop to redevelop the existing store and offer a more limited range of stuff in decent surroundings for staff & customers alike
that clearly is not going to happen so sometimes you just have to move on
the library plan at first sight doesn't look too bad - and the theory that moving the sale of alcohol about 50 yards nearer to the park is going to be a major issue is ridiculous
if the scheme goes ahead my major concern would be the existing site
1. who owns it?
2. what alternative uses are available for it?
3. can (will?) the council actively block applications to turn it into yet another take away?
4 The idea of a small retail unit is fine - but in the current economic situation what kind of business is likely to take it on?
[/Iwill get back to you on more, a little later if you will excuse me. thank you.
#107
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Posted 12 August 2011 - 08:34 PM
As a (relative) newcomer to the village I have no idea who owns the shop unit & indeed don't care
what does concern me is the term of the existing lease since if (for example) the co-op have a further 5 years to run & the library plan goes ahead
then unless someone else is prepared to take over the lease (unlikely) then we could be looking at a boarded up shop unit for years to come
if it is at all possible /legal any approval for the library scheme should be inextricably linked to an acceptqble use for the existing site.
what does concern me is the term of the existing lease since if (for example) the co-op have a further 5 years to run & the library plan goes ahead
then unless someone else is prepared to take over the lease (unlikely) then we could be looking at a boarded up shop unit for years to come
if it is at all possible /legal any approval for the library scheme should be inextricably linked to an acceptqble use for the existing site.
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Posted 12 August 2011 - 08:52 PM
As was said at the meeting the other evening the lease of the current store ends in either November or December this year, I can't remember exactly which it is though.
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Posted 13 August 2011 - 08:15 AM
Yorkshireman, on 12 August 2011 - 08:52 PM, said:
As was said at the meeting the other evening the lease of the current store ends in either November or December this year, I can't remember exactly which it is though.
thanks - on balance that's probably good news
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Posted 13 August 2011 - 03:25 PM
PhilD, on 13 August 2011 - 08:15 AM, said:
thanks - on balance that's probably good news
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Posted 13 August 2011 - 09:58 PM
peekaboo, on 13 August 2011 - 03:25 PM, said:
The lease runs out in November, THEN the persons that bought it at auction couple of years back, will have the say on what happens to the building!Well some of it as again they didnt buy it all!!! Very confusing! I am sure they will have difficulties trying to work out what they can and cant do too!I hope to see it go to good use and again I think it would be great if everyone could come up with what they would like in the village. Much better to be positive.
On a historical note, I'm sure I remember seeing a building somewhere near Main Street with Co-op in stone over the door. Is that true?
Retired goat herder!
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Posted 13 August 2011 - 10:49 PM
Yes there used to be one down peel place I think many moons ago
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Posted 14 August 2011 - 10:05 AM
Yorkshireman, on 13 August 2011 - 10:49 PM, said:
Yes there used to be one down peel place I think many moons ago
That is 100% correct, I well remember it being there & doing my grandmothers shopping there, I can even remember her Co-op dividend number which you had to quote (19384) & next door was the Co-op butchers & at the other side was Mary's fish & chip shop.
Also I remember while walking past Walmsely's greengrocers which was next door to the present butchers shop I picked up a key which I handed to the local policeman PC Freil who later contacted me to say he had found the owner of the key which was for the Co-op grocers & to go there for my reward which turned out to be a tube of Smarties which I didn't like.
TheFlyOne
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Posted 14 August 2011 - 03:11 PM
Sebastian-Smythe, on 13 August 2011 - 09:58 PM, said:
On a historical note, I'm sure I remember seeing a building somewhere near Main Street with Co-op in stone over the door. Is that true?
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Posted 15 August 2011 - 10:19 AM
peekaboo, on 14 August 2011 - 03:11 PM, said:
it is! it was a coop, they have had a great deal to do with the village over the years! Good grief time just seems to go to fast!!!
Thank you all.
I wonder does anyone have pictures of the building when in use. I'm asking this not to get away from the subject in hand but to show those new to the area what the village had in the way of shops etc compaired to now. A balanced picture of what was often helps in cases of what might or will be.
Retired goat herder!
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